[Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Hi folks,

As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
test them prior to buying a whole number of them.

This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.

We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
be ok here, too?

Thanks for your opinions.

Regards
Rolf

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?

Rolf

Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
> Hi folks,
>
> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>
> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>
> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
> be ok here, too?
>
> Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Regards
> Rolf
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>

[Alkis Georgopoulos]

Look up their CPU score an cpubenchmark.net.
For example:

https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/zbox-ci325-nano-windows-10
has CPU=N3160:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+N3160+%40+1.60GHz
which has a CPU score of 1648,
...which is the same as my 10 year old dual core laptop.

A score of > 1000 is required for fat clients.
A score of > 3000 is recommended for new fat clients.

So yes the i3/i5/i7 ones which have score > 3000 are much better.

I don't know about the fans, I haven't tried any Zotacs at all.


On 18/01/2017 11:40 πμ, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
> Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?
>
> Rolf
>
> Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>

[Johan Kragsterman]

Hej!


Rolf, it would be much cheaper if you build them yourself.

I have used these parts:

Mobo: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/J1900IC/

Chassi: http://www.chieftec.eu/en/chassis/itx/compact-series/ix-03b.html

Price together around EUR200, no big problems to fit. I've used these for more than a year, and they're silent(no fan) and reliable. Actually seldom turn them off. Use to have uptime of 2 months or so...


Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från

Johan Kragsterman

Capvert


-----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
Datum: 2017-01-18 10:41
Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M

Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?

Rolf

Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
> Hi folks,
>
> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>
> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>
> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
> be ok here, too?
>
> Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Regards
> Rolf
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Thank you very much for your answers.

Alkis, this is an interesting value, >3000 for a new fat client. You are
right, in this case I would need the big ones with fans. Is this just
what you read or based on own experience?

Johan, I checked the CPU from your proposal, it has only slightly more
power than the "weak" ones in Alkis' opinion. What would you say, are
they powerful enough to give good fat clients?

So... I am still a bit uncertain :)

Regards
Rolf



Am 18.01.2017 11:11, schrieb Johan Kragsterman:
>
> Hej!
>
>
> Rolf, it would be much cheaper if you build them yourself.
>
> I have used these parts:
>
> Mobo: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/J1900IC/
>
> Chassi: http://www.chieftec.eu/en/chassis/itx/compact-series/ix-03b.html
>
> Price together around EUR200, no big problems to fit. I've used these for more than a year, and they're silent(no fan) and reliable. Actually seldom turn them off. Use to have uptime of 2 months or so...
>
>
> Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från
>
> Johan Kragsterman
>
> Capvert
>
>
> -----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
> Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
> Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
> Datum: 2017-01-18 10:41
> Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M
>
> Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?
>
> Rolf
>
> Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>

[Alkis Georgopoulos]

On 18/01/2017 06:32 μμ, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
> Alkis, this is an interesting value, >3000 for a new fat client. You are
> right, in this case I would need the big ones with fans. Is this just
> what you read or based on own experience?


My experience with 1000+ schools.
That's what we ended up putting in our official hardware specs for them;
use google translate on this, if you want:
http://blogs.sch.gr/plinetio/specifications

IMHO J1900's are not good enough for "fluid" web browsing, and of course
not nearly enough for more intensive tasks like running a VM or even
Minecraft.

Of course one's needs and expectations of the UI responsiveness will vary.

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Am 19.01.2017 07:44, schrieb Alkis Georgopoulos:
> On 18/01/2017 06:32 μμ, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>> Alkis, this is an interesting value, >3000 for a new fat client. You are
>> right, in this case I would need the big ones with fans. Is this just
>> what you read or based on own experience?
>
>
> My experience with 1000+ schools.
> That's what we ended up putting in our official hardware specs for them;
> use google translate on this, if you want:
> http://blogs.sch.gr/plinetio/specifications
>
> IMHO J1900's are not good enough for "fluid" web browsing, and of course
> not nearly enough for more intensive tasks like running a VM or even
> Minecraft.
>
> Of course one's needs and expectations of the UI responsiveness will vary.
>

Very interesting! This is precisely the kind of experience I was
looking for.

We won't use the clients for VMs or games, but merely for office
software and web browsing. I am thinking about fat clients so they can
make full use of their graphics cards, i.e. they need to run their own
Linux plus Wine - and above all Firefox etc.

I was told here in the list that even gigabit network is not good enough
to compensate for the loss in graphics power with thin clients, and it
seems to me that nearly all folks here meanwhile use fat clients.

Do you have experience with the fans in such i3 and i5 systems, could we
run into any trouble with the noise here?

Regards
Rolf

[Johan Kragsterman]

Hej, Rolf!


If you want more powerful, you can get it, but it will be difficult to get much more on an embedded cpu, at the moment. And without the need of a heatsink. But you can check out the Z170 chipset mitx mobo's, but they don't come with embedded CPU, so the price will rise a LOT!

For my need my suggestion is good enough, but of coarse it will all depend on what you will be doing.



Okay, checked out a little bit more...

Seem to be difficult to get an embedded with the latest skylake, but you can get it with a j2900 CPU. You can check this out:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/q2900-itx/

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+J2900+%40+2.41GHz

That one will fit in my suggestion for chassi as well.


Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från

Johan Kragsterman

Capvert


-----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
Datum: 2017-01-18 17:33
Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Ang: Re: Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M

Thank you very much for your answers.

Alkis, this is an interesting value, >3000 for a new fat client. You are
right, in this case I would need the big ones with fans. Is this just
what you read or based on own experience?

Johan, I checked the CPU from your proposal, it has only slightly more
power than the "weak" ones in Alkis' opinion. What would you say, are
they powerful enough to give good fat clients?

So... I am still a bit uncertain :)

Regards
Rolf



Am 18.01.2017 11:11, schrieb Johan Kragsterman:
>
> Hej!
>
>
> Rolf, it would be much cheaper if you build them yourself.
>
> I have used these parts:
>
> Mobo: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/J1900IC/
>
> Chassi: http://www.chieftec.eu/en/chassis/itx/compact-series/ix-03b.html
>
> Price together around EUR200, no big problems to fit. I've used these for more than a year, and they're silent(no fan) and reliable. Actually seldom turn them off. Use to have uptime of 2 months or so...
>
>
> Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från
>
> Johan Kragsterman
>
> Capvert
>
>
> -----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
> Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
> Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
> Datum: 2017-01-18 10:41
> Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M
>
> Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?
>
> Rolf
>
> Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Hej Johan!

How did you realize the power supply? As far as I can see from the data
sheets, there is no power supply integrated into the chassis, right? So
I would have to use an external one. Do the plugs for the mobo come with
the chassis? And what kind of power supply did you use?

Regards
Rolf

Am 18.01.2017 11:11, schrieb Johan Kragsterman:
>
> Hej!
>
>
> Rolf, it would be much cheaper if you build them yourself.
>
> I have used these parts:
>
> Mobo: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/J1900IC/
>
> Chassi: http://www.chieftec.eu/en/chassis/itx/compact-series/ix-03b.html
>
> Price together around EUR200, no big problems to fit. I've used these for more than a year, and they're silent(no fan) and reliable. Actually seldom turn them off. Use to have uptime of 2 months or so...
>
>
> Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från
>
> Johan Kragsterman
>
> Capvert
>
>
> -----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
> Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
> Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
> Datum: 2017-01-18 10:41
> Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M
>
> Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?
>
> Rolf
>
> Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>

[Johan Kragsterman]

Hi, Rolf!



-----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
Datum: 2017-02-01 13:06
Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Ang: Re: Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M

Hej Johan!

How did you realize the power supply? As far as I can see from the data
sheets, there is no power supply integrated into the chassis, right? So
I would have to use an external one. Do the plugs for the mobo come with
the chassis? And what kind of power supply did you use?

Regards
Rolf


Yeah, everything except the external PSU comes with the chassi. You got a power front board to fit in, and a rear power plug slot. It is a bit tight to mount, but it worked fine for me.

I think I ordered the chassis together with the PSU's, don't really remember...but I'm sure the supplier you buy it from will be able to provide that too.

I bought them from a Swedish supplier. It is called: Chieftec AC-adapter 90W CDP-090ITX

I googled and found a German supplier of the PSU here:

https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/chieftec-cdp-090itx-a953460.html

And they seem to have the chassi as well:

https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/chieftec-compact-ix-01b-ix-01b-op-a896121.html?hloc=at&hloc=de



Am 18.01.2017 11:11, schrieb Johan Kragsterman:
>
> Hej!
>
>
> Rolf, it would be much cheaper if you build them yourself.
>
> I have used these parts:
>
> Mobo: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/J1900IC/
>
> Chassi: http://www.chieftec.eu/en/chassis/itx/compact-series/ix-03b.html
>
> Price together around EUR200, no big problems to fit. I've used these for more than a year, and they're silent(no fan) and reliable. Actually seldom turn them off. Use to have uptime of 2 months or so...
>
>
> Best regards from/Med vänliga hälsningar från
>
> Johan Kragsterman
>
> Capvert
>
>
> -----Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de> skrev: -----
> Till: ltsp-***@lists.sourceforge.net
> Från: Rolf-Werner Eilert <rwe-***@osnanet.de>
> Datum: 2017-01-18 10:41
> Ärende: Re: [Ltsp-discuss] Which flavour of Zotac clients - C or M
>
> Nobody here who has an opinion or has experience with these machines?
>
> Rolf
>
> Am 12.01.2017 08:27, schrieb Rolf-Werner Eilert:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_____________________________________________________________________
Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Luis Guzmán]

Hi,
El jue, 19-01-2017 a las 08:44 +0200, Alkis Georgopoulos escribió:

On 18/01/2017 06:32 μμ, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>> Alkis, this is an interesting value, >3000 for a new fat client. You
are
>> right, in this case I would need the big ones with fans. Is this just
>> what you read or based on own experience?

> My experience with 1000+ schools.
> That's what we ended up putting in our official hardware specs for
> them;

> use google translate on this, if you want:
> http://blogs.sch.gr/plinetio/specifications [1]

I've been reading this thread and it got me thinking.
I've implemented LTSP only once in a local school, my understanding of
it at the time, was to have one Resourceful server that could split its
brainpower to other machines not so powerful.
Well, that didn't go so well, so i hang around to better understand the
"real" scope for LTSP.

Seen that you recommend i3 as light clients, which are kind of
expensive around here, i wonder, why not just make standalone
installations?, I've come to an answer of to take care of administrative
tasks.
Then, should LTSP be seen as an administrative software for other
machines?, such as Puppet or some other administrative platforms.

Or am i missing the bigger point here?
It seems like i've take a lot of time to understand how to run it, but
very few on whats the scope.
Any site you recommend to fully grasp the whole idea.

Thanks.

> IMHO J1900's are not good enough for "fluid" web browsing, and of
> course
>
> not nearly enough for more intensive tasks like running a VM or even
> Minecraft.

> Of course one's needs and expectations of the UI responsiveness will
> vary.

[....]

Links:
------
[1] http://blogs.sch.gr/plinetio/specifications

[Alkis Georgopoulos]

On 20/01/2017 08:54 πμ, Luis Guzmán wrote:
> Seen that you recommend i3 as light clients, which are kind of
> expensive around here, i wonder, why not just make standalone
> installations?, I've come to an answer of to take care of administrative
> tasks.
> Then, should LTSP be seen as an administrative software for other
> machines?, such as Puppet or some other administrative platforms.


1) Selecting the client CPU and RAM is exactly the same for standalone
workstations and LTSP fat clients.
If J1900 is good enough for you, fine. If you want i3, use i3.
There's nothing "light" in this; it's normal workstations in all cases.
You can also consult your distro recommended requirements.

2) Selecting LTSP saves you from buying client hard disks, so it's a bit
cheaper on hardware.

3) In LTSP fat clients, you don't need a beefy and expensive server; a
normal workstation will do fine.

4) The main benefit of LTSP in the fat client use case is the central
administration, yes. You only maintain one installation instead of many.
For example, to replace one client with standalone workstations you'd
need to install the OS, to install and configure all the applications,
to join your central user database (e.g. ldap), to deploy /home etc.
With LTSP you just netboot a diskless client, i.e. you're done in
seconds instead of hours/days. Even if you used a perfect (and
complicated) puppet setup, you wouldn't be done in seconds.


So yup LTSP is mainly about extremely easy maintenance of a computer lab.

[richard kweskin]

On 2017-01-20 09:26, Alkis Georgopoulos wrote:
> On 20/01/2017 08:54 πμ, Luis Guzmán wrote:
>> Seen that you recommend i3 as light clients, which are kind of
>> expensive around here, i wonder, why not just make standalone
>> installations?, I've come to an answer of to take care of
>> administrative
>> tasks.
>> Then, should LTSP be seen as an administrative software for other
>> machines?, such as Puppet or some other administrative platforms.
>
>
> 1) Selecting the client CPU and RAM is exactly the same for
> standalone
> workstations and LTSP fat clients.
> If J1900 is good enough for you, fine. If you want i3, use i3.
> There's nothing "light" in this; it's normal workstations in all
> cases.
> You can also consult your distro recommended requirements.
>
> 2) Selecting LTSP saves you from buying client hard disks, so it's a
> bit
> cheaper on hardware.
>
> 3) In LTSP fat clients, you don't need a beefy and expensive server;
> a
> normal workstation will do fine.
>
> 4) The main benefit of LTSP in the fat client use case is the central
> administration, yes. You only maintain one installation instead of
> many.
> For example, to replace one client with standalone workstations you'd
> need to install the OS, to install and configure all the
> applications,
> to join your central user database (e.g. ldap), to deploy /home etc.
> With LTSP you just netboot a diskless client, i.e. you're done in
> seconds instead of hours/days. Even if you used a perfect (and
> complicated) puppet setup, you wouldn't be done in seconds.
>
>
> So yup LTSP is mainly about extremely easy maintenance of a computer
> lab.

As Alki says your clients don't need disks, though some schools hold on
dearly to the local disk with windows. No problem, either way. There is
even a way to add to a local windows boot loader an option to boot from
the lan so there is a dual boot for clients, too.

Another point about clients: they don't all need to be the same (since
some schools already have a mixed bag of the good, bad and ugly.) It's
possible to run clients with some fat and others thin. Note that this is
only recommended if you must (because you are stuck with some old and
some newer clients) since the mixture adds to an administrator's time to
keep track of the whole setup.

Fat clients (though diskless) run eveything locally just as a
standalone pc (and you can opt to run some apps remotely if the result
is better.) That is why a server doesn't need more than, say, 50MB of
its ram per fat client.

Thin clients (also diskless) run almost everything from the server (and
again there is an option to run some apps locally) so then the server
needs maybe 450MB of ram per thin client. Another important point,
especially with thin clients is the much heavier use of the network. A
gigabit nic from the server to the switch is a must and the switch needs
to have at least that one port a gigabit port. That way (in theory) 10
clients at 100 bit each can access the server (nearly at the same time)
through this gigabit link. Don't even think about trying LTSP with
clients using wireless links to the router (network speed is much too
slow!)

Linux is all about choice!! This can be confusing when you first start
out.

Richard

[jef peeraer]

What about the Intel nucs? I see they have a special fanless thinclient
model, although maybe not so powerfull to serve as a fat-client.
i tried the BOXNUC5PPYH once, but it is not fanless, worked fine as a
thincient.

greetz

Jef


On 01/12/2017 08:27 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>
> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>
> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
> be ok here, too?
>
> Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Regards
> Rolf
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

That was the final idea, Jef. I found a dealer around here who could
deliver me one of these NUCs (without HDD but with 2GB RAM).

I just tried to get it working on the current server, but it is
somewhat... tricky. The server is old, software from Suse 12.1, i.e. 2012.

During boot it hangs. And when setting it to debug boot mode, it says it
doesn't know the NIC and I should use option-129 to define it in dhcpd.conf.

Do you think it's really this (and how is it named then?), or could
there be anything else which can be easily solved? Would be nice to be
able to have a quick look at it before I set up a new server.

Regards
Rolf


Am 03.02.2017 09:18, schrieb jef peeraer:
> What about the Intel nucs? I see they have a special fanless thinclient
> model, although maybe not so powerfull to serve as a fat-client.
> i tried the BOXNUC5PPYH once, but it is not fanless, worked fine as a
> thincient.
>
> greetz
>
> Jef
>
>
> On 01/12/2017 08:27 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>
>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>
>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>> be ok here, too?
>>
>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>

[jef peeraer]

are the RAM modules the correct ones, I mean, ram specified by Intel. I
know these NUCs are sometimes sensitive on there ram modules.
Which model is it?

Jef

On 02/17/2017 11:52 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
> That was the final idea, Jef. I found a dealer around here who could
> deliver me one of these NUCs (without HDD but with 2GB RAM).
>
> I just tried to get it working on the current server, but it is
> somewhat... tricky. The server is old, software from Suse 12.1, i.e. 2012.
>
> During boot it hangs. And when setting it to debug boot mode, it says it
> doesn't know the NIC and I should use option-129 to define it in dhcpd.conf.
>
> Do you think it's really this (and how is it named then?), or could
> there be anything else which can be easily solved? Would be nice to be
> able to have a quick look at it before I set up a new server.
>
> Regards
> Rolf
>
>
> Am 03.02.2017 09:18, schrieb jef peeraer:
>> What about the Intel nucs? I see they have a special fanless thinclient
>> model, although maybe not so powerfull to serve as a fat-client.
>> i tried the BOXNUC5PPYH once, but it is not fanless, worked fine as a
>> thincient.
>>
>> greetz
>>
>> Jef
>>
>>
>> On 01/12/2017 08:27 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>>
>>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>>
>>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>>> be ok here, too?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Rolf
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>

[Rolf-Werner Eilert]

Well, the dealer himself put the RAM in and made a test before handing
it out to me. So I guess everything is ok.

No, I'm afraid this is a software rather than hardware problem, or the
old combination of too fresh hardware with too old Linux drivers.
Edubuntu (14.04) live gets the NIC running, but then fails at the
graphics. Meanwhile I started to set up a VM with an up-to-date Suse
Leap, so let's see what happens there :)

Regards
Rolf


Am 25.02.2017 18:47, schrieb jef peeraer:
> are the RAM modules the correct ones, I mean, ram specified by Intel. I
> know these NUCs are sometimes sensitive on there ram modules.
> Which model is it?
>
> Jef
>
> On 02/17/2017 11:52 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>> That was the final idea, Jef. I found a dealer around here who could
>> deliver me one of these NUCs (without HDD but with 2GB RAM).
>>
>> I just tried to get it working on the current server, but it is
>> somewhat... tricky. The server is old, software from Suse 12.1, i.e. 2012.
>>
>> During boot it hangs. And when setting it to debug boot mode, it says it
>> doesn't know the NIC and I should use option-129 to define it in dhcpd.conf.
>>
>> Do you think it's really this (and how is it named then?), or could
>> there be anything else which can be easily solved? Would be nice to be
>> able to have a quick look at it before I set up a new server.
>>
>> Regards
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>> Am 03.02.2017 09:18, schrieb jef peeraer:
>>> What about the Intel nucs? I see they have a special fanless thinclient
>>> model, although maybe not so powerfull to serve as a fat-client.
>>> i tried the BOXNUC5PPYH once, but it is not fanless, worked fine as a
>>> thincient.
>>>
>>> greetz
>>>
>>> Jef
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/12/2017 08:27 AM, Rolf-Werner Eilert wrote:
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>
>>>> As this year we plan to replace our old clients by newer ones, I was
>>>> looking around for someone who could show me Zotac ones, but as far as I
>>>> can see there is no dealer around my home town. So I wont be able to
>>>> test them prior to buying a whole number of them.
>>>>
>>>> This is why I ask here. Who has had experience with C-type and/or M-type
>>>> Zboxes? C ones are fanless, M ones maybe are more powerful. I wonder how
>>>> disturbing the fans in M-type ones can be (we need e. g. 16 in one
>>>> room), or how much weaker the power of the C-type ones is.
>>>>
>>>> We already had a discussion about fat clients. Would the C-type Zboxes
>>>> be ok here, too?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Rolf
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>>>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>>>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>>>> Training and support from Colfax.
>>>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>>>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
>> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Ltsp-discuss mailing list. To un-subscribe, or change prefs, goto:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
> For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net
>
>