[Ltsp-discuss] LTSP with Raspberry Pi as thin client

[Paweł Ptasznik]

Hi,

Please tell me, has anyone really succeeded in configuring RPi as an LTSP
thin client? I have already read all sort of tutorials, discussions and
reported problems (including
http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/rpi-ltsp-howto.txt) and I have tried to
do as suggested. Unfortunately, I am unable to run RPi as a thin client.
The only thing I accomplished so far is installing Edubuntu 12 on VmWare
along with LTSP and connect to it using Berryterminal on RPi. However, X
session does not start, I am only able to run so called FailSafeTerminal
(probably because there is no armhf chroot on server).

I have tried to crosscompile armhf client using ltsp-build-client script on
Edubuntu 12, Ubuntu 14, Debian 7, as well as I have tried to do it on
target RPi. In each case script throws big amount of errors. The moment I
write some workaround for one, I need to face another. I do not post error
logs here right now, because there is no use fixing them one by one.

If somebody really have managed to configure RPi as a thin client, please
tell me, how have you done it, with as much details as possible. I need
this RPis for new classroom in primary school, this will allow me to spare
a lot of public money, which in other case will have to be spent for
expensiv x86 terminal.

Kind regards
Paweł Ptasznik

[Mark Ellse [e-mail]]

For me, running LTSP extensively in a school, a small robust thin client
like RPi, running reliably with Edubuntu would be a dream situation.

Mark Ellse

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Hi,
Please tell me, has anyone really succeeded in configuring RPi as an LTSP
thin client? I have already read all sort of tutorials, discussions and
reported problems (including
http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/rpi-ltsp-howto.txt) and I have tried
to do as suggested. Unfortunately, I am unable to run RPi as a thin client.
The only thing I accomplished so far is installing Edubuntu 12 on VmWare
along with LTSP and connect to it using Berryterminal on RPi. However, X
session does not start, I am only able to run so called FailSafeTerminal
(probably because there is no armhf chroot on server).
I have tried to crosscompile armhf client using ltsp-build-client script
on Edubuntu 12, Ubuntu 14, Debian 7, as well as I have tried to do it on
target RPi. In each case script throws big amount of errors. The moment I
write some workaround for one, I need to face another. I do not post error
logs here right now, because there is no use fixing them one by one.
If somebody really have managed to configure RPi as a thin client, please
tell me, how have you done it, with as much details as possible. I need
this RPis for new classroom in primary school, this will allow me to spare
a lot of public money, which in other case will have to be spent for
expensiv x86 terminal.
Kind regards
Paweł Ptasznik
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[a***@arkki.info]

Post by Mark Ellse ***@chasegrammar.com
For me, running LTSP extensively in a school, a small robust thin
client like RPi, running reliably with Edubuntu would be a dream
situation.
Mark Ellse

I think, the answer is here: http://pi.gbaman.info/?p=256

"A full 34 page userguide detailing all steps and troubleshooting help":
http://pi.gbaman.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/small_Userguide-pi-ltsp-full-size.pdf

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.

[Paweł Ptasznik]

Yeah, thank you for your answer, but the project you have referred to
considers RPi as Fat clients. Actually, I have played a bit with @gbaman's
project and I have to admit that it works. Nonetheless, RPi Fat clients are
extremely slow, because all the operations are calculated on target. What I
need is RPi as a Thin client. I will loose an opportunity to access GPIO,
but I will gain speed, for all the calculations will be performed on server
side.

Best Regards
Paweł Ptasznik

Post by a***@arkki.info

Post by Mark Ellse ***@chasegrammar.com
For me, running LTSP extensively in a school, a small robust thin
client like RPi, running reliably with Edubuntu would be a dream
situation.
Mark Ellse

I think, the answer is here: http://pi.gbaman.info/?p=256
http://pi.gbaman.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/small_Userguide-pi-ltsp-full-size.pdf
Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[a***@arkki.info]

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Yeah, thank you for your answer, but the project you have referred to
considers RPi as Fat clients. Actually, I have played a bit with
@gbaman's project and I have to admit that it works. Nonetheless, RPi
Fat clients are extremely slow, because all the operations are
calculated on target. What I need is RPi as a Thin client. I will
loose an opportunity to access GPIO, but I will gain speed, for all
the calculations will be performed on server side.
Best Regards
Paweł Ptasznik

I think there is no other project for that than BerryTerminal and it is
not (very) active: http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php

What you need? Just more power for browser and wordprocessor? Why not
ltsp_remoteapps with Raspi-LTSP:
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man1/ltsp-remoteapps.1.html

Best Regards Asmo Koskinen.

[Vagrant Cascadian]

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Yeah, thank you for your answer, but the project you have referred to
project and I have to admit that it works. Nonetheless, RPi Fat clients are
extremely slow, because all the operations are calculated on target. What I
need is RPi as a Thin client. I will loose an opportunity to access GPIO,
but I will gain speed, for all the calculations will be performed on server
side.

setting in lts.conf:

LTSP_FATCLIENT=false

Will turn those fat clients into thin clients. You'll want ldm-server
installed on your server.

I didn't find the RPI useful as a general purpose fat client or as a
general purpose thin client, personally. It's hard to imagine the extra
time spent working with the RPI costing less than getting hardware
better fit for the task...


live well,
vagrant

[Paweł Ptasznik]

@Asmo
Thanks, this looks like a walkaround to my problem, but maybe I will use
remoteapps.

@Vagrant
Well, my feeling exactly. I think I would rather get some x86 terminal
dedicated to this kind of operations. However, I found very few terminals
available on market, all of them extremely expensive (for example
http://www.disklessworkstations.com/1700-series-thin-clients.html#buy - for
this price I can build a standalone PC, not just a terminal). If someone
know where to buy some good and relatively cheap x86 terminals, please let
me know.

Kind regards
Paweł Ptasznik

Post by Vagrant Cascadian
LTSP_FATCLIENT=false
Will turn those fat clients into thin clients. You'll want ldm-server
installed on your server.
I didn't find the RPI useful as a general purpose fat client or as a
general purpose thin client, personally. It's hard to imagine the extra
time spent working with the RPI costing less than getting hardware
better fit for the task...
live well,
vagrant
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[James Linder]

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Yeah, thank you for your answer, but the project you have referred to
project and I have to admit that it works. Nonetheless, RPi Fat clients are
extremely slow, because all the operations are calculated on target. What I
need is RPi as a Thin client. I will loose an opportunity to access GPIO,
but I will gain speed, for all the calculations will be performed on server
side.
Best Regards
Pawe? Ptasznik

Post by a***@arkki.info

Post by Mark Ellse ***@chasegrammar.com
For me, running LTSP extensively in a school, a small robust thin
client like RPi, running reliably with Edubuntu would be a dream
situation.
Mark Ellse

I think, the answer is here: http://pi.gbaman.info/?p=256
http://pi.gbaman.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/small_Userguide-pi-ltsp-full-size.pdf

I do. It’s easy. It works well.
RPi as a stand alone machine running X on the ltsp server. All the heavy lifting is done on the ltsp server and frankly once it works why ever bother to upgrade the RPi. IE LTSP with the server doing the X but not the boot-run bit.
James

[Ben Green]

Post by James Linder
I do. It’s easy. It works well.
RPi as a stand alone machine running X on the ltsp server. All the
heavy lifting is done on the ltsp server and frankly once it works
why ever bother to upgrade the RPi. IE LTSP with the server doing
the X but not the boot-run bit.
James

We've found them to make very slow clients. The one thing, IMHO, that
would make them worthwhile as clients would be a method of booting
which supports the new VC4 gallium3d based driver. This won't appear
until the 3.18 kernel at the earliest.

Cheers,
Ben

[Harry Lavender]

Hello,

I recently wrote a guide on how to install LTSP and BerryTerminal from
scratch, meaning you can use the Pi as a fully functioning thin client:
http://www.uzerp.com/blog/running-raspberry-pis-as-thin-clients-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts/

This version doesn't use raspbian, unlike LTSP-Pi.


Thanks,


Harry Lavender

Post by Ben Green

Post by James Linder
I do. It’s easy. It works well.
RPi as a stand alone machine running X on the ltsp server. All the
heavy lifting is done on the ltsp server and frankly once it works
why ever bother to upgrade the RPi. IE LTSP with the server doing
the X but not the boot-run bit.
James

We've found them to make very slow clients. The one thing, IMHO, that
would make them worthwhile as clients would be a method of booting
which supports the new VC4 gallium3d based driver. This won't appear
until the 3.18 kernel at the earliest.
Cheers,
Ben
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce.
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

--
Regards

Harry Lavender
System Administrator
Severn Delta Limited
DDI 01278 726278
Tel [phone]
Fax [phone]

Showground Road,
Bridgwater,
Somerset TA6 6AJ
Company Number 4269451
VAT Registration GB793728185

[Paweł Ptasznik]

This looks like a good solution. There are several steps, which I did not
perform yet. Thank you, I will try it on weekend, as on Thursday and Friday
I am virtually out of home.

Best regards
Paweł Ptasznik

Post by Harry Lavender
Hello,
I recently wrote a guide on how to install LTSP and BerryTerminal from
http://www.uzerp.com/blog/running-raspberry-pis-as-thin-clients-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts/
This version doesn't use raspbian, unlike LTSP-Pi.
Thanks,
Harry Lavender

Post by Ben Green

I do. It’s easy. It works well.
RPi as a stand alone machine running X on the ltsp server. All the
heavy lifting is done on the ltsp server and frankly once it works
why ever bother to upgrade the RPi. IE LTSP with the server doing
the X but not the boot-run bit.
James

We've found them to make very slow clients. The one thing, IMHO, that
would make them worthwhile as clients would be a method of booting
which supports the new VC4 gallium3d based driver. This won't appear
until the 3.18 kernel at the earliest.
Cheers,
Ben

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Ben Green
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce.
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.

http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk

Post by Ben Green
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

--
Regards
Harry Lavender
System Administrator
Severn Delta Limited
DDI 01278 726278
Tel [phone]
Fax [phone]
Showground Road,
Bridgwater,
Somerset TA6 6AJ
Company Number 4269451
VAT Registration GB793728185
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Steve Ligett]

Regarding available inexpensive x86 clients as an alternative to trying the
RPi, I bought used HP dc7900 USDT's (ultra small desktop) for our lab via
Ebay. It may not be a universal solution, but given that we had monitors,
keyboards, and mice, it worked for us. These generally have Core 2 Duo
processors. Many sell without hard drives, which is perfect for an LTSP
installation. Make sure to get power adapters. We spent about $80 each, as
I recall. (I see them for $67.50 now.)

They are a nice size, and use a lot less power than the P4 clients we had.

steve

[Floris Bos]

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
I am unable to run RPi as a thin client.
The only thing I accomplished so far is installing Edubuntu 12 on VmWare
along with LTSP and connect to it using Berryterminal on RPi. However, X
session does not start, I am only able to run so called FailSafeTerminal
(probably because there is no armhf chroot on server).

Are you sure you were running 12 and not 14?
There is a bug in (Ed)Ubuntu 14 that indeed will give you a blank screen
after logging in with Berryterminal to a GNOME session.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1251281
"gnome-session-flashback fails to start without hardware acceleration in
cloud/remote environments (Forwarded-X/XRDP/VNC/NX/X2GO/Chromoting)"


12 should work without problems though.
And 14 does work if you use a non-GNOME session ("sudo apt-get install
lxde")


Yours sincerely,

Floris Bos

[Paweł Ptasznik]

Ops, yes indeed, I have actually used Edubuntu 14. I am downloading Ubuntu
12 right now and will follow the tutorial steps. Thank you for your answer.

Post by Floris Bos

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
I am unable to run RPi as a thin client.
The only thing I accomplished so far is installing Edubuntu 12 on VmWare
along with LTSP and connect to it using Berryterminal on RPi. However, X
session does not start, I am only able to run so called FailSafeTerminal
(probably because there is no armhf chroot on server).

Are you sure you were running 12 and not 14?
There is a bug in (Ed)Ubuntu 14 that indeed will give you a blank screen
after logging in with Berryterminal to a GNOME session.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1251281
"gnome-session-flashback fails to start without hardware acceleration in
cloud/remote environments (Forwarded-X/XRDP/VNC/NX/X2GO/Chromoting)"
12 should work without problems though.
And 14 does work if you use a non-GNOME session ("sudo apt-get install
lxde")
Yours sincerely,
Floris Bos
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Paweł Ptasznik]

Many thanks to all who have replied to my question. I have finally managed
to set up RPi as a thin client, it works quite smoothly. I have followed
the tutorial written by Harry Lavender (
http://www.uzerp.com/blog/running-raspberry-pis-as-thin-clients-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts/),
but with ubuntu-12.04.5-server-amd64, as Floris Bos suggested.


Best regards
Paweł Ptasznik

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Ops, yes indeed, I have actually used Edubuntu 14. I am downloading Ubuntu
12 right now and will follow the tutorial steps. Thank you for your answer.

Post by Floris Bos

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
I am unable to run RPi as a thin client.
The only thing I accomplished so far is installing Edubuntu 12 on VmWare
along with LTSP and connect to it using Berryterminal on RPi. However, X
session does not start, I am only able to run so called FailSafeTerminal
(probably because there is no armhf chroot on server).

Are you sure you were running 12 and not 14?
There is a bug in (Ed)Ubuntu 14 that indeed will give you a blank screen
after logging in with Berryterminal to a GNOME session.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1251281
"gnome-session-flashback fails to start without hardware acceleration in
cloud/remote environments (Forwarded-X/XRDP/VNC/NX/X2GO/Chromoting)"
12 should work without problems though.
And 14 does work if you use a non-GNOME session ("sudo apt-get install
lxde")
Yours sincerely,
Floris Bos
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want excitement?
Manually upgrade your production database.
When you want reliability, choose Perforce
Perforce version control. Predictably reliable.
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157508191&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
_____________________________________________________________________
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss
For additional LTSP help, try #ltsp channel on irc.freenode.net

[Floris Bos]

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
Many thanks to all who have replied to my question. I have finally
managed to set up RPi as a thin client, it works quite smoothly.

Good to hear you managed to get it to work.

Post by Paweł Ptasznik
I have followed the tutorial written by Harry Lavender
(http://www.uzerp.com/blog/running-raspberry-pis-as-thin-clients-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts/),
but with ubuntu-12.04.5-server-amd64, as Floris Bos suggested.

Tutorial looks a bit more complicated than strictly necessary though.
If you have:

- a server that matches the recommend configuration (in particular it
has two network ports, one goes to Internet, one goes to the Ethernet
switch the clients are on)
- an Edubuntu 12.04 DVD

Server setup is a matter of ticking the "install LTSP" box during
installation.

http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/setting_up_edubuntu_as_ltsp_server


And client setup is a matter of extracting berryterminal.zip to an empty
SD card, and sticking it in the Pi.


Yours sincerely,

Floris Bos